• Congratulations to SleepyAgent for winning a PS5 Pro!

"Sweet Baby Inc." & the Videogame Industry DEI Dilemma.

GiGAHEART
Silver Medal

GiGAHEART

Registered
Quite a long read however it's a necessary one I feel because there's this brewing, divisive & controversial matter that I believe is gonna spill over if it indeed hasn't yet so, for better or worse it's yet to be seen or decided.

Not to push buttons at all or what have you & for me as a gamer since the PS1 era, I guess I just didn't care enough as much as I liked to or choose to because my mindset has always been: if it's a fun game, it's a good game.

That's a couple decades or so.

Enter Sweet Baby Inc.


"For us, that generally means that we might be asked to look at a story if there’s a character in it who is marginalized in certain way, and [the studio] wants us to connect them with a consultant who can bring a little bit of authenticity…"
Sweet Baby cofounder David Bedard adds that, contrary to popular belief, the people making these games want to make the experience better for all players—and that more diversity and representation is a byproduct of that.

kotaku.com

Sweet Baby Inc. Doesn’t Do What Some Gamers Think It Does

No, one company isn’t ‘forcing’ diversity into all your favorite video games
kotaku.com kotaku.com


So, recently there is this:


In a nutshell, Sweet Baby Inc. has been accused of making games worse in a bid to help companies meet their ESG (environmental, social, governance) and DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) targets. It’s also come under fire for allegedly forcing its employees’ political ideologies into the games it has worked on.

www.theshortcut.com

Sweet Baby Inc. detected: What actually happened and why should you care?

An inclusion-focused narrative company called Sweet Baby Inc. has sparked a heated debate online between gamers and people in the industry
www.theshortcut.com www.theshortcut.com


From Tom's reporting regarding the recent developments of the newest Assassin's Creed entry, Shadows, it got me thinking hence I made this thread with what he revealed:


"However, sources have said that the team has been actively addressing many of the historical and cultural concerns, which started before the game’s reveal following external playtests and were accelerated further following the game’s initial reveal and mass feedback."

insider-gaming.com

EXCLUSIVE - Context Around the Assassin's Creed Shadows Delay

Exclusive context around the recent delay announcement of Assassin's Creed Shadows which will now launch February 14, 2025.
insider-gaming.com insider-gaming.com


I'm not sure if SBI is directly involved here, but with having deals with Ubisoft previously & Disney, EA, Sony, etc. it's not out of possibility.

My opinion?

Feelings change when things are fluid & the videogame industry is one of the fastest-rising technlogical marvels humanity has ever conceived.

In 3 decades or so we went from 2D sprites to hyper-realistic visuals only imaginable from sci-fi movies of the yesteryears.

From a gamer standpoint, I just want creators to make what their true vision is, like for instance the Elden Ring geniuses at Fromsoftware & what is Hideo Kojima is doing nowadays.

At the same time representation isn't a bad thing, as long as it doesn't interfere with the artistic process.

Let the devs be themselves, I guess.

Genuinely curious what does everyone here thinks about this.

Thank guys.
 
I've never heard of SBI before, but I feel strongly about DEI being a hindrance on anything it's forced upon.

The fundamental issue with DEI is that you are prioritizing inclusivity over competence. If given a minority candidate in one hand who is drastically under qualified, and in the other hand a non minority candidate who is far more qualified and experienced and a better fit overall, DEI dictates you pick the underqualified minority strictly because they're a minority. If I'm having a surgery I want the most qualified surgeon. If I'm getting on an airplane I want the most qualified pilot (and engineers designing it).

It's like DEI forces you to choose between inclusivity or competency, but they aren't mutually exclusive! I don't want someone to hire me just because of my skin color, sexuality, or my personal beliefs. I want them to hire me because I am the best fit for the job. It seems big corps nowadays though are too afraid of being cancelled for not being inclusive enough, so they've gone overboard in the opposite direction.
 
Cosmonaut117 said:
I've never heard of SBI before, but I feel strongly about DEI being a hindrance on anything it's forced upon.

The fundamental issue with DEI is that you are prioritizing inclusivity over competence. If given a minority candidate in one hand who is drastically under qualified, and in the other hand a non minority candidate who is far more qualified and experienced and a better fit overall, DEI dictates you pick the underqualified minority strictly because they're a minority. If I'm having a surgery I want the most qualified surgeon. If I'm getting on an airplane I want the most qualified pilot (and engineers designing it).

It's like DEI forces you to choose between inclusivity or competency, but they aren't mutually exclusive! I don't want someone to hire me just because of my skin color, sexuality, or my personal beliefs. I want them to hire me because I am the best fit for the job. It seems big corps nowadays though are too afraid of being cancelled for not being inclusive enough, so they've gone overboard in the opposite direction.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. the whole "inclusivity over competence" is a huge hindrance to the quality of some of the recent games produced. In a weird way this sort of thing has been happening in the Christian movie genre for decades. It's sort of a joke within Christian circles that their movies are notoriously bad. They are bad because they put the message before the medium. What's most important is working in the ideology, not making a good movie. This is the same thing happening with DEI practices. What's most important is the DEI ideology, not making a good game.

Even though I disagree strongly with DEI and the worldview that it espouses, I can't really blame them for having it influence their art. That kind of thing is almost unavoidable. What I can blame them for is sacrificing game development best practices on the alter of their worldview. Ironically, if they would just make a good game with a compelling story first, and competently weave in whatever message they want, the end product would be much more effective in spreading their ideas.
 
BongoBongo said:
I agree completely. the whole "inclusivity over competence" is a huge hindrance to the quality of some of the recent games produced. In a weird way this sort of thing has been happening in the Christian movie genre for decades. It's sort of a joke within Christian circles that their movies are notoriously bad. They are bad because they put the message before the medium. What's most important is working in the ideology, not making a good movie. This is the same thing happening with DEI practices. What's most important is the DEI ideology, not making a good game.

Even though I disagree strongly with DEI and the worldview that it espouses, I can't really blame them for having it influence their art. That kind of thing is almost unavoidable. What I can blame them for is sacrificing game development best practices on the alter of their worldview. Ironically, if they would just make a good game with a compelling story first, and competently weave in whatever message they want, the end product would be much more effective in spreading their ideas.
Click to expand...
Hi Intelligence, it's very nice to meet you!

Perfectly said. And I have to admit the example of the Christian film industry was spot on unfortunately, but an excellent example (The Chosen has made big strides in this area in my opinion).

On a slightly comedic note, I saw Disney posted a DEI Director job online, and in my mind I'm thinking, 'okay, certainly by definition this means they ought to hire the most unqualified person for this job, right?'.
 
Cosmonaut117 said:
Hi Intelligence, it's very nice to meet you!

Perfectly said. And I have to admit the example of the Christian film industry was spot on unfortunately, but an excellent example (The Chosen has made big strides in this area in my opinion).

On a slightly comedic note, I saw Disney posted a DEI Director job online, and in my mind I'm thinking, 'okay, certainly by definition this means they ought to hire the most unqualified person for this job, right?'.
Click to expand...
Haha, yes the Chosen is an anomaly. My wife and I have enjoyed watching it. Ironically, because the show creators sought to make a good show first, and only highlight certain aspects of Jesus' ministry, the show has had to endure a lot of criticism from some Christians.
 
The fact that it costs money to have SBI make your game worse in the eyes of consumers makes it even more baffling that companies still use them. Hateful spiteful and an overall detrimental company to the space. Kotaku and some other gaming journalists are also slipping into the nonsensical parasite category too.. 0 credibility
 
Cosmonaut117 said:
I've never heard of SBI before, but I feel strongly about DEI being a hindrance on anything it's forced upon.

The fundamental issue with DEI is that you are prioritizing inclusivity over competence. If given a minority candidate in one hand who is drastically under qualified, and in the other hand a non minority candidate who is far more qualified and experienced and a better fit overall, DEI dictates you pick the underqualified minority strictly because they're a minority. If I'm having a surgery I want the most qualified surgeon. If I'm getting on an airplane I want the most qualified pilot (and engineers designing it).

It's like DEI forces you to choose between inclusivity or competency, but they aren't mutually exclusive! I don't want someone to hire me just because of my skin color, sexuality, or my personal beliefs. I want them to hire me because I am the best fit for the job. It seems big corps nowadays though are too afraid of being cancelled for not being inclusive enough, so they've gone overboard in the opposite direction.
Click to expand...
Except that really is not what has hurt the quality of games, as evinced by some of the insider reporting done by Jason Schreier on games like SSKTJL. It's ultimately a matter of unsustainable dev cycles, devs being underpaid, a disconnect between devs and management who are more focused on predatory monetization models, high turnover, etc. You can talk to any developer whose worked on a game on Twitter and they'll all tell you DEI has never been major influence on the development process. The people who say it are either not acting in good faith or genuinely do not know how game development works. They'd rather grift on people's prejudices.

All DEI does is ensure that qualified people, who are often deemed as unqualified/underqualified due to their identity get a seat at the table. They still had to prove themselves to even get a slot in. That is the main problem with DEI and its detractors who either implicitly or explicitly believe there's no way a minority could ever be qualified.
 
thenerdwonder said:
Oh lord. Wanting diversity is not hateful.
Click to expand...
This is absolutely right. I feel you also cannot parade and flaunt the merit of inclusiveness, whilst also excluding or hating on a different group of people. One example would be Dragon Age Veilguard, yes they have (whether you agree or not) added in some options that add to the diversity and representation of some peoples in character customization, however they've also seemingly excluded the ability to make, shall I say more shapely characters.

Furthermore and more similarly to when people use racism to combat racism; a completely counterintuitive and almost always ignorant act. A recent example of this would be Dustborn, a game with self promoted claims of friendship and the power of words that goes on to provide the player with "abilities" meant to exclude, isolate and diminish people the protagonist dislikes or disagrees with. That poor robot did absolutely nothing wrong yet you're forced to scream at it much to the dismay of all the people around you.

The almost flip side of that coin is games or films getting hated on for not being as inclusive or diverse as someone may like. Black Myth Wukong got marked down in some reviews for not being diverse enough even though the game was built around literature on Chinese mythology. I don't think it would be at all reasonable to expect that media, carefully built upon a foundation of Chinese Mythology, to include Norse or Aztec people for example. Not only that but then to go on and penalise the game for it in a review is ridiculous.

I truly believe that following source material suchlike should not be met with negativity and angered shouts to make a game etc. more diverse. In addition, companies making changes ONLY in the name of face value diversity is also a bad thing and demeans true diversity. A game for everybody is a game for nobody - that saying rings evermore true.
 
thenerdwonder said:
Except that really is not what has hurt the quality of games, as evinced by some of the insider reporting done by Jason Schreier on games like SSKTJL. It's ultimately a matter of unsustainable dev cycles, devs being underpaid, a disconnect between devs and management who are more focused on predatory monetization models, high turnover, etc. You can talk to any developer whose worked on a game on Twitter and they'll all tell you DEI has never been major influence on the development process. The people who say it are either not acting in good faith or genuinely do not know how game development works. They'd rather grift on people's prejudices.

All DEI does is ensure that qualified people, who are often deemed as unqualified/underqualified due to their identity get a seat at the table. They still had to prove themselves to even get a slot in. That is the main problem with DEI and its detractors who either implicitly or explicitly believe there's no way a minority could ever be qualified.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty bold claim to make on behalf of all game developers. I'm sure it's not the case for all studios, but I can imagine it has indeed impacted at least some. Now I will say that my post was directed more towards all industries where DEI is enforced, not specifically or exclusively the gaming industry.

Now I have to say I totally disagree with the second half of your post. Perhaps that is what DEI OUGHT to be, but it is definitely not how it's being pushed, at least on the cases that have made the spotlight. I'm sure there are people who exist that believe minorities couldn't be qualified for a position just because they're a minority, but I personally have never seen evidence of that in my life and sphere of influence. DEI in the spotlight cases is being used to push minorities minorities minorities FIRST, and any other consideration about them plays second string.

Need I bring up the prime example of The Acolyte? Disney, in an effort to have an openly multi-front minority director, created what is commonly accepted as being the worst Star Wars content ever made in the history of the franchise. Why? Because Disney was more concerned with how their director choice checked the minority boxes than whether she was a proven and talented director. Thus there was a poorly written script and dialogue, poor casting choices, and an effort to inject personal opinions into the series that had no meaningful bearing on the content rather than prioritizing a compelling TV show first. That is the problem of DEI.
 
It's a delicated topic for sure, whomever having worked with a consultant company is not indicative of a game's overall quality.

What i know is that many people downplay the effects of sales of having your game atributed to a consultant company nowdays, specially after the whole thing blew up due to streissand effect. I've seen lots of people straight up cancelling pre orders because they saw a consultant company attached to the game.
 
Captain_Fuzz said:
The fact that it costs money to have SBI make your game worse in the eyes of consumers makes it even more baffling that companies still use them. Hateful spiteful and an overall detrimental company to the space. Kotaku and some other gaming journalists are also slipping into the nonsensical parasite category too.. 0 credibility
Click to expand...

That's the part I don't get too, Cap.

Why let outsiders into the creative process of YOUR OWN writers?

Just let artists make art, be it words & what have you.

This happened to that Lord of the Rings TV show too & that's why that show is so controversial + polarising.
 
GiGAHEART said:
That's the part I don't get too, Cap.

Why let outsiders into the creative process of YOUR OWN writers?

Just let artists make art, be it words & what have you.

This happened to that Lord of the Rings TV show too & that's why that show is so controversial + polarising.
Click to expand...
Of all the authors' work to try to flex your creative muscles and impose on, Tolkien is not the one 😂
 
To an extent, sometimes you need some checks and balances in place to ensure that your creative vision isn't getting into negative stereotypes. But that's what makes the AC situation all the more baffling. Given that SBI have worked with Ubi on a fair few titles, it isn't out of the question they would be here as well.

The issue I have with these companies like SBI is that they "scare the hell" out of marketing teams causing inter-team conflict in order to push their agenda, rather than letting teams tell the stories they want to tell and just making sure they aren't doing any big no-nos (like the half torii gate screw up for AC Shadows merch)

A lot of the people working at places like SBI have a clear agenda they want to push and wherever they can push it, they will do so. But when the story teller doesn't actually care about elements of characters that they're forced to include or cover, they aren't interested in fleshing it out because why would they be? That isn't really their story. So we end up with elements that stick out like a sore thumb because someone else is pushing their own agenda into a story that isn't theirs.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top